In Episode 17, Dr. Nicholas Ng-A-Fook interviews Dr. Samuel D. Rocha, a philosopher and curriculum theorist at University of British Columbia. During their conversation, Dr. Rocha shares his perspectives as a phenomenologist, musician, artist, and Mexican-American in relation to the 2020 United States election and The Syllabus as Curriculum. They discuss some of the following concepts: experiencing and crossing intellectual and material borders, folk phenomenology, reductions of time and memory, “art precedes metaphysics” and the “offering,” playing jazz, hegemonic presence of social sciences in Faculties of Education, a non-Apology of the humanities, posthumanism and post-qualitative research, promethean forewarnings, teacher as luthier, cheeky questions, shitty curriculum, teacher education, and so much more.